Saturday, December 19, 2015

George McGovern Running for President reminds me of Bernie Sanders Running. By Geniusofdespair

George McGovern and Bernie Sanders

 I pulled the numbers off of Wikipedia so take them with a grain of salt:

George McGovern wanted a 37% reduction in defense spending over three years and he wanted to end the Vietnam War. He wanted to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment. He was the Bernie Sanders of the time. I loved George McGovern because he wanted to end the war and the younger generation was giddy, they embraced him wholeheartedly for the 1972 election. That election had the lowest voter turnout for a presidential election since 1948 even though the vote was extended to 18 year old citizens (if you could fight in a war at 18 you should be able to vote).  George McGovern got 37.5% of the vote to Nixon's 60.7%. The very unpopular war continued.

Lyndon Johnson in the 1964 election, ran against Barry Goldwater (the arch conservative of the time, now would be considered a moderate). Goldwater lost to Johnson in a landslide.

The reason I am telling you all this, I do not believe a candidate too far to the right or left can win. So, although I like Bernie Sanders I just don't think we can count on young people to vote in enough numbers to make him a winner. A candidate that calls himself a Socialist has doomed himself. I think he will have a hard time getting the Black vote in America. Bill Clinton will have that segment locked up for Hillary. Are we ready for a Woman President? I think we are more ready for a woman than for a Jewish Liberal President from Brooklyn.

I stood up for my ideals voting for McGovern. A lot of good it did me or the country. We got stuck with Nixon. People in Florida stood up for their ideals on Al Gore (he wouldn't take a stand on the Homestead Air Base) and instead voted for Ralph Nader. That got us 8 grueling years of George Bush. Those votes in South Florida cost the entire country and got us in a war.

Ideals are to be taught to your children not for electing people. You have to be strategic, especially with the financing we now have since Citizens United.

We have to consider that most people are moderate and middle of the road. That is what sells in America. The only reason Obama got in twice is because the Republican keep putting forward moronic candidates that label themselves as conservatives. I think that many Americans are afraid of the word Conservative. Can Bernie Sanders win against a conservative moron? Maybe. But I am just not convinced. I think America is deathly afraid of the word socialism, too close to the word communism. The Republicans would have a field day with the label.

Do I think that the DNC should make it harder for Sanders: No. Let the chips fall. Am I appalled that the Sanders campaign mined data from the Clinton Campaign that they got in a computer glitch: yes.

According to data reviewed by TIME, it appears that one top lieutenant on the Sanders campaign and three others intentionally sought to obtain information from the Clinton voter file. The Sanders’ campaigns actions also appear to have violated a contract with the DNC about respecting data.

“This was a very egregious breach and our data was stolen,” said Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook in a conference call with reporters Friday.


Anonymous said...

Ideals are for sissies not for the real world.

Anonymous said...

"also appear to have violated a contract with the DNC about respecting data."
Sort of like when the police shoot people instead to serve and protect.
Or the wholesale domestic data collection originally meant for foreign protection purpose.

The survival instinct is always stronger when "threatened"

Anonymous said...

Coupled with the article that the Miami Herald wrote about young Americans (college age) being detached from politics, I thing your analysis is correct. We can't count on this generation's vote. The baby boomers will pick the president.

Anonymous said...

Sanders wants to be THE data collection president?

CATO said...

Thank G.O.D. that not even with your (not so Holy) support none of these two became or will become EL Presidente. Socialism may be a nice idealistic concept (NOT!) but it's not practical, most people for whatever reason want more stuff (200 inch Flat Screen with a toilet paper and hot buttered popcorn dispensers) and to be able to hold on to as much of their shit as possible.

This Nation has gone bat shit crazy when so many people can say they support either Trump or Sanders (for different reasons).Every pinko that espouses socialism here points to Europe (never Cuba or Myanmar, except for that fat dumb slob Michael Moore), I've been there (Europe) often and I very much enjoy visiting, but I'd rather live here (maybe with the exception of Italy, fast cars, pretty women,chic loafers, excellent designer suits and all the pasta you can eat what more can you ask for, maybe wider streets).

Zwoman said...

Wrong comparison g.o.d. McGovern was running against an incumbent. Think Al Gore, heir apparent to the WH with a successful administration and a POTUS with high approval, and he won but lost. Why, because he didn't win by enough votes. With all the Republican cheating it takes a landslide for a Dem to win. Dems need new and exciting to get them out. Think Bill Clinton, he came from nowhere Arkansas, but he was new, he was fresh and he exited the Dems. The Democratic establishment is declaring Hillary the heir apparent and the only one who can win so we have to vote for her. They are putting all their eggs in the Hillary basket and marginalizing Bernie. DWS and the party leaders are doing everything they can to make certain Hillary gets the nomination while ignoring history. When Dems are NOT EXCITED about their candidate, they stay home in droves. This is why we lose midterms. This is why Hillary will lose. Dems will stay home, they are not motivated by fear as are the republican lemmings. And millennials hate both parties, they have no loyalty, they are excited about Bernie. They will ignore Hillary. Wake up and learn from the past. Hillary cannot win. Our only hope is Bernie. Bernie or Bust!

Geniusofdespair said...

The incumbent was Nixon. That is a whole lot of difference. I think my comparison stands the younger generation was very excited about McGovern. They just didn't vote. Young people are fickle. They are not committed to voting like the 4's and 5's.

Anonymous said...

I am Republican and as of now, support Marco Rubio. If he's not the candidate and Trump is, believe me.... Hillary gets my vote!

Malagodi said...

And so, as poet John Giorno says "It all gets decided by your fear; no penetration.

Clinton promises a return to the Clinton administration, Sanders promises a return to the Johnson (not McGovern) administration.

The fundamental flaw in this kind of thinking is the misconception that electoral politics drives social policy, whereas in reality social movements drive electoral politics. The electoral process is -always- a lagging indicator.

Point is, Sanders has no real social base for his candidacy except for a small (tiny) group of mostly white privileged political types who got enamoured of the Occupy movement and then misdirected that genuine social energy into a political campaign. If Sanders actually did represent a real social movement, then whatever the DNC did would be irrelevant.

It is absurd for Sanders to say that he will 'explain' Democratic Socialism to the people and will enact his policies through the mobilization of a massive grassroots movement. Candidates do not create movements, movements create candidates. In the absence of that, all you get is representatives of the rich, in both parties. And/or you get a TV show.

Sorry, there are no easy shortcuts. Without revolutionary sacrifice (or work, if you prefer the nicer word) 24/7, 365, there is no revolution. Polémics and parlor debates, political posturing on Facebook is nothing more than sound and fury signifying nothing. If you want a revolution (and I suspect even Sanders supporters don't), then do something revolutionary. Don't expect some candidate to do it for you.

Anonymous said...

Now way am I voting for a plutocratic candidate. It will be Bernie or Jill Stein for me. I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it, than vote for what I don't want and get it.

Geniusofdespair said...

So you want a baby and don't want a man involved ? That is your logic, you are setting up an impossible outcome and you will fail. Failure is not an option.

Malagodi said...

Failure may not be an option, but it is always a good possibility.

cyndi said...

I think we need to stop telling people who to vote for - that's what gets us into real trouble and then people stay home. Let's talk Rick Scott shall we. People couldn't stomach Charlie so now our Florida destroyed. Not in the process anymore. Destroyed. People in Florida are ok with the fact that the Govenor does not read newspapers, is a puppet of the Koch brothers.
The only reason Bush won was a screwed up voting system and the second time because of 911. This election is turning into that. It's all about keeping os safe because of two wing nuts in California. The conversation has gone from the middle class to staying safe.
I'm thinking of moving to Colorado. They are putting single paper on the ballot, the legalize marijuana (I don't smoke it but I support the legalization), you get full benefits like health insurance if you work 24 hours. I can't afford Florida any more. By the time I'm done seeing a patient, driving time and computer charting I've made 10 bucks an hour. No benefits. Everything is going up. Boulder is great place. They seem to make it all work with the different kinds of people that live there. Everyone I know there seems to be thriving while we are being dragged down.

Joseph Kreps said...

This is not 1972. We now have the internet. Republicans have moved so far to the right that Hillary thinks she's progressive. I'm more optimistic about minority voters who voted against Hillary in 2008 doing the same in 2016. The millennials are smarter and more motivated to vote than the drop out hippies of the past. Bernie Sanders will be our next President because he speaks the truth and the truth will set us free. By the way, I predicted a two term Obama Presidency every year since 2006 and everyone laughed at me an said I was crazy. Also revolutions happen over years and the establishment always says it won't happen. Sound familia.