I would very much like to have a running discussion about the presidential election, but the drivel that someone posted on the Graham post is insane. I don't want to hear the party lines. I want to hear your OWN opinions. If you are going to regurgitate what you hear on the radio, call in to the radio shows. Don't write it here. Calling Obama a socialist is stupid and so is saying Democrats will raise taxes. That is not a discussion. If you want to be stupid do it somewhere else. If you have something to say, that you have thought about with your brain, we would be glad to hear it. Either side can present their views. If you aren't smart enough to have an orignial thought, then at least be funny and also consider not voting.
41 comments:
Obama won't raise taxes - unless you happen to own an investment such as a stock, mutual fund, property, etc. - this only effects over 100 million people so no big deal - and the long term capital gains tax is only going up 90% - from 15% to 28% - just the facts once in a while
...or of course on the other hand, with the war and other Bush legacy huge deficit spending, the next president won't raise taxes and we can continue to have a currency worth nothing (which is making us much poorer that an increase in taxes), high oil prices (see above, crap currency) and commodities with high energy content (see above: oil prices, crap currency). In short, we are a lot less affluent that we used to be and that is because our taxes are too low to cover the spending we have. Either get out of Iraq (thus reduce spending--that would be Obama not McCain) or increase taxes to cover he war. On the other hand, we can keep getting poorer with McCain and have the illusion we aren't paying much in taxes as our currency turns to total crap and all imported and high energy content products cost a ton more.
Simply put, I'm voting for Obama because he's not a Republican. Those guys have screwed up in every decision over the last 7 years that they don't deserve another four. It would be nice to give Democrats a shot at running things to see if the wrongs could be turned into rights. Obama may not be perfect but I'll take the less of two evils right now.
Its also important to point out that Obama seems less in the pocket of the special interests. All politicians are dirty but it seems like he's got less grime.
Thats right, Obama just has character flaws and questionable associations. Go O!
The chickens have come home to roooost!
Oh wait, I heard that on the radio nevermind my post.....
Capital gain taxes going up....
In 2005, the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans received almost 70 percent of all long-term capital gains—and paid 72 percent of the tax on these capital gains.
The wealthiest 10 percent of taxpayers enjoyed 90 percent of the capital gains eligible for this special tax break.
The poorest sixty percent of Americans, by contrast, collectively received just 2 percent of the capital gains eligible for the lower capital gains rates.
So 90% of Americans should support a tax policy that overwhelmingly benifits 10%?
I say no, no, no.
Between McCain and Obama, I will vote for McCain due to Capital gains issues, I am retired and living on investments, and Second Amendment issues among other things.
NRA member:
And everyone else, thanks for doing as I asked. This is a good discussion. Back to NRA: How is having an interest rate of about 3% helping you in your retirement? It is killing my mother-in-law. The capital gains loss is small potatoes compared to her loss of income due to low interest rates. Not being a whiz on economics but I will give it a try with a brain that does not really understand: Isn’t the low interest rate and the cheap dollar allowing the Chinese (from whom we import everything since we have taken away all the incentives for manufacturing here in the US) to make major purchases/investments in the US? I am just guessing, but I would think that couldn't be good for our future. But then, who cares about the future. NRA you are looking at your own pocketbook instead of the good of the Country and that is where we get into trouble.
Where is that flag when you need it.
There is no way of knowing where any politician is going once he gets into office if you base your thinking on what they say to get elected. This year we do not have to care. Another four years of the Bush government and we will all be selling pencils on the street. McCain is close to Bush, no question not as bad, but he has to cater to the maniac fringe that elected Bush, so he will never be of value to the average American. Of course he will also have to cater to the billionairs who own the republician party. Yes I know there are misspellings, we poor folks just never learned how to spell.
P.S. My uncle died a few days after 9/11 with about four million dollars and almost two million when to the IRS. I asked him before he died: Why don't you protect that money? He said he wanted the government to have it. I would say this is a man that cared more about this country than many. He was a lifelong Republican but died as a Democrat because he said it was unfair the way the poor are treated in this country.
My short answer is “The 15% cap gives me a predictable cap on investment earnings taxes. I know that regardless of how well or how poorly my investments are, the max I will be taxed is 15%.” Buy the way I have done a lot better than 3% in past years. This year will not be as good.
NRA - Yes, I know the interest rates were high in past years. I was talking about your future. You sidestepped your choice of voting on your pocketbook only, argument...
Continuing with the "ME and MY needs" motivation for choosing a candidate, if interest rates were at 10% how would you fair even if capital gains taxes increased?
We do alot of importing because of the runaway labor costs (unions). I ask the previous anon post the flip side of his/her argument-what %age of total tax revenues are generated by the higher income individuals? I bet you this number is extremely high(well over 80%). So does it not stand to reason that this 10% that get taxed capital gains rates on their capital gain income (the rest is paid at regular rates-and I'm not even touching alternative minimun taxes) get taxed at the cg rates.
Pretty much the only reason Im voting Dem is because I think we need a change after 8 woeful years of Rep Presidents. Thats my reason, nothing else. Im so sick of hearing about the election and cant wait for it to be over so we can stop talking about it and seeing it on TV.
As a democrat who voted for Charlie Crist, instead of Jim Davis, and someone who considers himself to be a moderate (although G.o.D would argue against that) here are a couple of the issues I have with the presidential race.
1. If you are in a room full of democrats and you claim not to be voting for Senator Obama, due to fiscal policy, social policies, whatever, half the room is going to look at you sideways and give you that look of "why don't you just go ahead and say it. You don't like him because he's black?"
Obama isn't going to lose because of racism amongst republicans, he'll lose because race is still an issue amongst democrats, but they just won't admit it.
Let's talk about the Reverse Discrimination.
I can't understand how diehard democrats try to brush under the rug the Reverend Wright Issue. Senator Obama's association with these type of people genuinely gives me pause as to what his true feelings regarding the proverbial "White Man" really are. You can't compare McCain's support from those right wing nut-job evangelicalls to Obama's relationship with Wright.
As a white democrat, I honestly worry about Wright's, and to a certain extend Michelle Obama's, "the white man is the devil" attitude.
But nooo, according to the typical America is Evil, Govern due to some sense of guilt democrats, I must be a racist.
Typical circular firing squad amongst democrats. Support the most liberal candidate, and when persons in your own party don't support that candidate, tell them how stupid they are or browbeat them.
You can hang the right-wing lable on as many Rebublicans as you want, call McCain: McBush McSame whatever, but the truth is, the Republicans nominated the most moderate candidate in their field, and they did it early on.
So maybe they are more in touch with mainstream america, or even just mainstream Florida.
Meanwhile the democrats will talk about how much smarter they are than everone else and continue to scratch their heads as their candidates lose.
moderate
I must be a really selfish person - I'm voting for which candidate best suits me - God, am I greedy or what? - for some reason I'm not a big fan of this free everything for everyone who chooses to do nothing with their life except drink 40's and watch BET all day or make up excuses why they are where they are - but like I said, I'm the epitomy of selfishness
I'm just grateful to know that if the Dems are dumb enough to offer Hussein as the nominee they will be forfeiting the most important state - Florida - and most likely hand PA and OH to McCain also - brilliant - hey, good luck in the general election picking up those southern states Hussein did so well in.
Of the three "approved" candidates, not one of them offers anything that even remotely looks like change to me.
I started life as a Democrat. I changed to a Republican. Now I'm an Independent.
I will not waste my vote on Obama, Clinton or McCain. I will instead vote for one of the other parties that are offering real change; change so real they aren't allowed to play in this sandbox.
Our biggest threat to personal freedom is our government.
SCG
To me it comes down to two choices:
Tax and spend
Borrow and spend.
At least with Tax and spend I won't be condeming my children/grandchildren to a low standard of living because of my generations excesses.
Why must I give you a piece of my pie...You want a piece of pie, make your own pie.
I only removed one, it was what I asked readers not to do, parrot back crap with no substance from the radio. There are some borderlines left, but everyone has been pretty good.
And last anonymous...go back to my Maslow post....see where you are at on the pyramid. Boot strap mentality cannot cure all our ills. There are elderly people, children, mentally ill, etc. who cannot "make pies" EVER. Consider yourself lucky that you can. People don't always choose to make their lives miserable...sometimes it just happens. Should we kick them while they are down or offer them a lifeline?
Many of you are religious I assume. Jesus was about compassion. That was his message. Compassion is:
"A deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering.
The humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it."
The messages some of you are writing: "I've got mine" is inconsistent with Christianity. i assume you aren't Christians.
I understand there are elderly, kids, mentally ill, etc, but there are many more deadbeats and lazy bums out there than the 3 you describe. Lets help the 3 you define...I agree. But the rest need to try and carry their own weight, not sit back and expect society and government to cure their ills. Our society needs to take on more responsibility and accountability. We have smokers who are told smoking kills-yet they smoke, gays are told unprotected sex can kill you-yet they still have it, drivers who who are told don't drink and drive-yet they destroy lives. And then they blame everyone else and sue for millions of dollars in monetary damages and expect government's help.
Don't bring Religion into this please-you all are the first to say separation of Church and State.
And besides why does'nt the Church give away, sell, or auction some of their gold and treasures to help mankind...They could erase hunger and poverty pretty quickly. How compassionate would that be.
I like your idea for the Catholic church, no other church has such riches.
I'm sixteen, so my comment may not mean much, but make of it what you will.
For my whole life, I had Republican crap shoved down my throat. See, I come from a typical super anti-Communist pro-Republican family. For years, I defended the Republicans when my friends (even though none of us knew what we were talking about) supported the Dems. Then last year, I decided to get into politics what with the primary and all, and am now having to defend Barack Obama in a very hostile household.
Now, why do I support him? First and foremost he's a Democrat, and I am so angry at having been told for so many years to believe in a group that, in all honesty, I just plain don't agree with on platform all that much. Besides that, I just think he's an honest guy. Honest politician, now there's an oxymoron. But seriously, I know all politicians have their flaws, as we all do, but he seems to have the least and I don't associate Wright's views with his.
On most issues we see pretty eye to eye, and Mr Obama has shown that he is most dedicated to changing the way things are done around here. I could also say I agree with Hillary Clinton on most issues, but my problem is that I just don't trust her. To me, Clinton is an arrogant liar and if anyone is elitist it is her. On that note, sometimes 'elitism' isn't all that bad, depending on how you define it. If I can have a president who got a good education at an Ivy League, is ten times smarter than me, is much more worldly and traveled..then I would rather have him over the guy I'd have a beer with (y'know, if I could drink.)
Just my two cents. Perhaps a nickel, due to length, but you get the idea.
G.O.D.
I don’t believe I am voting only on my pocketbook. But if I was I am the only person who can take care of me and I will come first. If I did not take care of myself first I would not have been able to retire before I reached 60 years of age and still pay my way with taxes.
As for who to vote for: I am not pleased with any of the current candidates but I will not throw my vote away as one other has said they will do. I will continue to follow what information I can to see if anything will change my current selection but so far Obama is just a lot of talk for me.
I was not for the Iraq war but now we are in it I don’t think pulling out is the right thing to do. My feelings on the second amendment are strong and I think Obama is lying through his teeth when he says he supports it. I feel that a person who attends a church for 20 years with a pastor like Rev. Wright must share some of the beliefs of the pastor or they would find another church.
Change my mind, tell me why Obama will be the one to vote for. Don’t tell me why to not to vote for McCain.
Thank you 16 year old. WE value your input even though you can't vote. We don't want to leave you with a country you won't be proud of...well at least I don't want to. Keep coming back.
Many are terrified at what Obama will do to your portfolio according to Forbes however, they say if patterns from history are any indication, expect the market to be positive in 2008 and below average in 2009 of Obama wins and if McCain wins, expect a loser inaugural year (they say .5% loss for the market). Out of 10 Republican inaugural years, only 3 were positive for the republicans.
I would be more worried about Moody's report that the US Government might lose it's triple A rating and that is under a Republican President.
Dear NRA member: I can't change your mind...especially if you are in your 60's...but I am glad your mind is open.
Somehow I get the feeling that Abel the 16 year old is much older than that. I hope the 16 year old is proud of our country cause Ms Obama sure said she was not.
Proud of my country:
With George Bush as president?
Why don't you listen to the speech...instead of pulling out one sentence. I did. I felt like the statement was part of her pride in seeing people engaged in the political process...Finally. Apathy being the norm.
Also watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqsDydV-I6E&feature=related
That is what I thought she meant when she made the speech. It was obvious to me. Although, you can turn on the radio and get the one line you are satisfied to live with, over and over and over.
That is what I have been saying -- use your brain....it is for thinking...not for repeating crap someone else has framed for you or reduced to a soundbite.
I think this election is a mix of stepping away from public policy based on the "fear of retribution" along with believing the candidate has enough vision to get us out of this mess; which most people rightfully perceive we're in.
That obviously benefits Obama but (and I'm gonna be straightforward here) he's black, has to make history and has to defend against the constant "liberal is bad" - "conservative is normal" mentality that has been ingrained in our culture. A tall order but I think he's got the stuff.
Just don't think McCain has the stamina not to pop. You can see it with his fake laugh on the Daily Show. He's good at deflecting and going back to his point but my instinct says that when he's pressed in the debates and gets hard questions afterwards - he pops. If he can restrain himself and play the Reagan role of "there" but rising above, he's got a shot.
Reality though tells me this is a total blowout. The mood of the country is the pendulum has already started to swing. I just don't think McCain is dynamic enough to stop it going across the clock. Dems by double digits. It will be the reverse of the slaughter of 2002. Remember McBride he was anchor that took the Dems straight to the bottom. McCain ain't that bad but he ain't no "rock-star" Bush.
What is the big deal about Obama and Rev. Wright (who he has denounced), yet nothing is said about McCain and his embracing of the equally disruputable Pat Robertson?
Last anonymous...fluff and no stuff, Sharpton, etc. you were removed for spouting radio cliches....which I asked that you NOT do. I said I was removing people who didn't have their own ideas and you were over the top.
Obama condemns Farrakan but he was involved with the million man march in 1995. One of the organizers was Rev. Wright.
The Million Man march, was it not a good thing? I thought it was: (Wikipedia)
According to voter registration statistics, one and a half million black men registered to vote in the months following the March, leading David Bositis of the Joint Center for Economic Studies to remark, "In reviewing the sharp increase in the black male vote, I might find it highly implausible that there was another factor that rivaled the Million Man March in bringing about this change."
Following the 1995 Million Man March, The National Association of Black Social Workers (NABSW) reported a flood of 13,000 applications to adopt black children. Concurrently to the march, the NABSW launched an initiative, the Fist Full of Families Nationwide Adoption Initiative, as part of its goal to limit transracial adoption and encourage African-American families to adopt African-American children.
The million man march was a good thing, the point was Obama was not selective then in condemning statements from the two spiritual advisors. Remember he had this Trinity Church deal going for twenty years, this Wright did not show up overnight and neither did Farrakan. Did they get more irrational with their statements or did Obama get more exposure? Thus he was forced to condemn and repudiate both of their statements just this year for political purposes, 1995 was a while ago, took him 13 years to realize he was in the company of America haters? Why did he wait so long? Calls into question his judgment in my opinion, but I am not going to convince you nor will you convince me, at least we agree on developers, the UDB, the dim and vile show, the economy, overbuilding and the environment. Watch McCain select Condoleeza Rice or Colin Powell as his V.P. choice if they are willing.
This is a post that has the writer's opinions. Much better, I take issue with some of the info, but it is presented well.
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