From the Miami Herald:
Say you’re walking home at night when a stranger stops his car and approaches you in the dark. Fearing for your life, you protect yourself with the only weapons at your disposal, your voice and your fists. You land a few good punches and take him down, but the stranger now fears for his life, pulls a gun and shoots you dead. Who stood his ground? Florida’s Stand Your Ground law favors the survivor since dead men tell no tales, and statistics show such laws favor the white male. Repeal or amend this flawed statute.
20 comments:
Me Thinks Stoddard in(s) flawed.
What's flawed is that an unarmed teenager walking back to his father's condo is dead, and the shooter is free. The example by the South Miami Mayor is not unusual or flawed, the law allowing this to happen is flawed.
What are his thoughts on the legalization on marijuana?
Oh wait, we already know his thoughts on that one.
M
Many people think the law only applies to White people gunning down Blacks. But it applies to everyone gunning down everyone . . .
Thank you Mayor Stoddard! This law sure does apply to everyone. Repeal this law now.
Frederika Wilson voted in favor of "Stand your Ground" when she was in the FL Legislature.
Sorry, Congresswoman Frederica Wilson.
Stand your ground came about because a law abiding citizen could be convicted for simply defending him/herself.
Stand Your Ground is not perfect (nothing is) and perhaps could be tinkered with but repealing it would bring back issues that existed prior to laws existence.
Zimmerman case is not necessarily a SYG case because if someone is on top of you pounding your head into the concrete sidewalk (as witness testified and injuries further prove) you have reason to fear for your life and therefore defend yourself.
That Zimmerman may have been an idiot who over zealously pursued Trayvon may be the case, but it may also be the case that Trayvon over reacted and instead of just saying with his dad a few houses down decided to beat the crap out of the "creepy ass cracker."
Wanna be Cop + Wannabe Gangsta= Deadly and Tragic Outcome, no matter the law.
What is also not given much press is the amount of threats and intimidation that has followed the verdict.
Historically in Florida we had a 'duty to retreat.'
Prior to use of 'deadly force', which was allowed only to protect one from 'death or great bodily harm', one also had the duty to retreat. In a shooting resulting in death the shooter was guilty if the state could prove there was the ability to retreat. This law worked plenty well, from the 'bootleg days' of the 1920s through the Cocaine Cowboy days of the 1970-80s up until recently when ALEC (funded by Koch Bros. in part) and NRA got the GOP to pass 'stand your ground'.
I appreciate Stoddard 'speaking up', elected leaders have been rather quiet about this bozo law. Today someone can start a fight for no reason and when he starts losing the fight he started, pull out a gun and shoot and say 'I stood my ground'. What a joke.
I fully endorse a boycott of North Florida (from where the majority of the legislators who love this 'stand your ground' come from). Money is the only thing these clowns listen to. Make the GOP chose between ALEC/Koch/NRA money and tourist dollars.
To the second anon:
The shooter is free because in this country we have a judicial system (the best in the history of the world) that determined that he was not guilty. The six jurors determined - to the best of their ability - that there wasn't enough proof to convict the shooter.
If we start questioning the validity of juries, our entire constitutional system will start crumbling.
Response to Syg Sauer.
You do not understand how the law works, before or after 'Stand your ground'. People were not getting convicted for defending themselves before this law.
Your characterization is not accurate-just false-amounts to a NRA/ALEC talking point: "Stand your ground came about because a law abiding citizen could be convicted for simply defending him/herself."
As a former public defender and criminal defense lawyer for decades in the criminal courts, "the number of "law abiding citizen...convicted for simply defending him/herself" is exactly ZERO! I litigated and tried self defense homicide cases.
SHOW ME THE LEGIONS OF INNOCENT WHO WERE CONVICTED FOR DEFENDING THEMSELVES!!!!
SHOW ME!!!!! (Names, case numbers, sentences and we can evaluate these cases on the merits)
The legislator who wrote 'stand your ground' did so (he claimed on NPR interview) because a constituent who shot in self defense (and was not ultimately charged) should not have had to wait for the few months it took for the State Attorney to investigate the shooting and ability to retreat.
I saw some people wrongly convicted in the 1980-2000 time frame. These were disproportionately minorities in red neck counties, hispanics for drug crimes, women who were dragged into crimes by spouses and became accomplices in some manner...but NOT one law abiding citizen that I saw was 'convicted for simply defending him/herself."
The amazing thing for which ALEC/Koch Bros./NRA/GOP are to be admired, is their ability as a minority to hijack the legislature and get people to buy into this nonsense! It is an impressive showing of activism.
Marissa Alexander fired a warning shot, result she got twenty years.
You are basing the black culture against the white culture, stereotyping blacks. This kid wasn't a thug.
We have become the most deadly and violent civilization in history. Number of citizens killed on mainland is surpassing the number of foreign soldiers we have killed in foreign wars. The nation is commuting suicide.
A comment above says: "shooter is free because in this country we have a judicial system (the best in the history of the world)
According to legal scholars worldwide the best judicial system is said to be what now functions in Great Britain. We rank near the bottom among developed nations.
Gun Deaths per country, per 100,000 people-WOW!
USA rate is near third world rates at 10.3 persons per 100,000, far higher than EU and developed world which averages less than 1 death!
But wait, Florida is even WORSE at 11.5.
http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/
That puts Florida in the category of MEXICO (11.17) Paraguay (8.16), Argentina (10.05), Nicaragua (7.29), Uruguay (14.01).
Only South Africa, Swaziland, Panama, Honduras, Guatemala, Colombia and Brazil kill with guns at a higher rate than Florida!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
This is an embarrassment!
'You're doing 'a hell of a job Brownie'...errrr....GOP...errr....Koch Bros...errr NRA....errr....ALEC...errr...Glock....errr Ruger'!
I was 17 and walking home from the store one evening when I heard footsteps behind me, coming closer. Then I took a hard shove between the shoulder blades. I spun around and confronted a blond, blue-eyed stranger. I told him to leave me alone, turned, and continued on my way. He followed me again, and shoved me once more. I could have run (probably should have), but I did not. I was 17, a varsity wrestler at the top of my weight class, and full of my own testosterone. I can't tell you exactly what happened next except that he hit the sidewalk, his head too, and I had his arms pinned at his side with my knees. I told him I'd beat the shit out of him if he tried anything again. He looked me in the eyes and said "I'm sure I don't care." I still remember the hot wave of rage and the not-very-nice choices that flashed through my mind....
At those crystalized moments in the narratives, how did the psychic states differ between the 17 year old me and the 17 year old Trayvon Martin? I suggest not very much.
Fucking liberal bloggers with Ed Show.talking points. ;-()
So that's what we've devolved to?
Anon above correct People weren't threatening OJ when he was found not Guilty matter of fact he moved to a white neighborhood. Could Zimmerman be as safe moving to Miami Gardens ?
There was a trial not perfect but a jury has rendered a verdict. They can sue Zimmerman in civil court if they please. Jesse Jackson and Sharpton.are nothing bit two bit charlatans
In the words of Rodney King "can't we all just get along?" Not to be confused.with Rodney.Dangerfield "I have a gay cousin in the family tree he's in the fruit section "
The 2012 Florida Statutes Title XLVI CRIMES Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE 776.013 HOME PROTECTION; USE OF DEADLY FORCE; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another IF:
(a) THE PERSON AGAINST WHOM THE DEFENSIVE FORCE WAS USED WAS IN THE PROCESS OF unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) DOES NOT APPLY IF:(a) THE PERSON AGAINST WHOM THE DEFENSIVE FORCE IS USED HAS THE RIGHT TO BE IN OR IS A LAWFUL RESIDENT OF THE DWELLING, RESIDENCE, or vehicle, such as an owner, lesee, or titlehoder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) THE PERSON OR PERSONS SOUGHT TO BE REMOVED IS A CHILD OR GRANDCHILD, OR IS OTHERWISE IN THE LAWFUL CUSTODY OR UNDER THE LAWFUL GUARDIANSHIP OF, THE PERSON AGAINST WHOM THE DEFENSIVE FORCE IS USED
State House Speaker Will Weatherford says he will ask a House Committee to hold a hearing this fall on the SYG law. No telling how many people will be killed with this law as a defense between now and then, but he is providing some leadership in getting the process started. He might be someone we can work with, may be not on every issue because he is a Republican, but on some issues. He doesn't seem to be afraid to stand up and lead - a rare quality in the body politic. As I recall, he was the one who stood up against the Dolphin Stadium tax ripoff.
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