The Most Shameful Meeting of the Board of County Commissioners In Miami Dade History: Part 3 ... by gimleteye

Here is the partial transcript.

(Link to video of the Feb. 21st Commission Meeting if you would rather watch it.  - scroll below the video to Non Agenda Item - Citizen Presentation Re: Derm. If you hit on it, you will be at this presentation).

Feb 21 BCC /Alice Pena - Citizens Presentation

5 minute presentation:

Hope and expectation that the nightmare that the DERM nightmare that this community has endured will now end with a resolution. March 3, 2011 town hall meeting in Homestead. At this meeting serious concerns were raised about activities formed by DERM. As a result, a task force advisory committee to streamline application process on wetlands to provide enhanced property owners and to provide advice to bcc regarding revisions to wetlands regulations and ch 24. (MY NOTE: this was also the meeting that provoked the resignation of DERM's director, Carlos Espinosa; a career bureaucrat who had done everything the Great Destroyers wanted yet resigned rather than surrendered his dignity to Linda Bell.)

I am a member of that task force committee and concerned that the recommendations offering relief offer no remedies. No mention of regulation 33B; a 33 page document that renders DERM’s … Las Palmas community and designates community and totally egregious and fallacious and has been used to give free reign to DERM and unjust they are. People are not allowed to farm or do anything on their properties. DERM inspectors jump over fences unbeknown to owners. They intimidate harass property owners. Forcing them to lose their properties through court action. Illegal action to owners. Is this America or are we going to legitimize Gestapo tactics?

Happening all over county. I have submitted 1989 law by Congress that gave rise to expansion of environmental concerns. Won’t read 8.5 square mile , refers to residents of area and agricultural area, not wetlands.

Tell us some of the experiences.

People are jumping fences (DERM) unannounced. The area has been flooded. These were experiments again something that should be against the law. The lady with hunger strike? Lost the property or about to lose property.

You can’t mow property. These are farmlands. These people are cited if they don’t mow or clean their properties. Taken to court, fines that are unrepayable.

Martinez: This seems like an abuse. They have transgressed into just making money. (Moss not here.) I have fought this a lot with Moss.

Pena thanks Martinez. We have been able to fight every agency that is involved. The canal project … DERM has been out there and making people lose their property. People under the extreme wrath of DERM. Instead of being compensated, they are being confiscated.

Javier Souto: Alice is so right in what she is saying. Back in 80’s when I was senator in that part and I went to many gathering in different places. It is an old, old situation that keeps going on and on. When those in Washington decided to convert large parts of Miami Dade into “wetlands” only they know… These wetlands things were beginning and the environmental stuff, btw for those you don’t know about ag… I’m from an old farming family in Cuba… farmers are all environmentalists. The best farmers are good environmentalists too. People who play with words and there is so many of them creating spinoffs and phrases and sound bites, they have confused a lot of people with what is being an environmentalists and what is being an agricultural person. They have created a lot of harm. There are huge parts of Holland that are reclaimed from the sea and from which they produce tremendous farming and animal husbandry. Do these so called environmetnalists know more than the European guys who created all this stuff. I have had many fights with super environmentalists because they don’t know what they are talking about. People get confused because they get worked up by the media and others, and people get worked up into a frenzy. These things have created a frenzy in Miami because there is no reason that the area in South Dade should be producing agriculture. And producing cattle without causing any damage. There is all kinds of ways to avoid that. In today’s world with all the equipment and tools, there is no reason to pollute. But there are people in our midst in Miami Dade county and that is why I am constantly talking about corruption … there is corruption in different places. And every day, some comes out of that. It is easy to go in that direction and easy to be abusive and that brings all the other stuff. Alice I understand very well what you are saying and congratulate you and always backed your position. I know what I am talking about. The state of Florida is an agricultureal state. Dade County is an agricultural county. And 3 billion in produce. The sky is the limit. This county produces fruits no one in America can produce. Nobody can produce in the country. We have a microclimate that no one has in America. Do we want to use it, or, do we want to just scrap and just flood it and forget about everything? I think there should be more concern about predators with the boa constrictors than hitting the farmers that are producing more food stuffs for the nation.

Commissioner Diaz: this has been an ongoing problem for several of us… but it never seems to persist on a permanent basis. I remember when I was put on a task force by the Governor, the Everglades task force. (MY NOTE: Pepe Diaz was on the Everglades Task Force: ask Diaz to produce his attendance records. What percentage of meetings did Diaz actually attend?) And there was a lot of abuses. The parks department caused a lot of problems with the flooding they put forth. Back then, we had to testify in Congress and when we got sued because of a little bird. We cannot hinder public safety by huring the citizens who pay the taxes that these organizations live from. This cannot be doing the runaround. This has been going on too long… it’s bad enough for the financial state we are living in, and now you mandate a department that is holier than thou, but there are mandates that are put upon you that might create more damage than good. DERM, somewhere along the line grew massive fangs and wanted to do more than it was their ability to do. My concern when a department goes a little too far. I’ve been dealing with these problems for 20 years with Alice Pena. A lot of people got paid who wanted to leave the 8.5 square mile area. The reason: the mandate of the parks and the levels they want to keep, and water filtration. Those are the results as to why. So now you add this other problem it only adds insult to injury to it. I though we agreed to find solutions, not put us on the spot again. Are we going to say, let’s wipe out DERM? What level do we have to take things too, so we get the citizens who put us in office to do the right thing. I take offense to getting trashed. I don’t want this coming all the time. I’ve been dealing with this problem for close to 20 years. We were able to solve them in Sweetwater with the pump systems: working with everybody. But the first and foremost thing, is thou shall not flood. If you are going to create damage to human and livestock. Wetlands Advisory Task for  (Lee Hefty, PERA) formed by board to look into exactly what you are talking about. There has been a lot of interesting discussions in the task force. How to provide relief to agricultural community. I can assure you we don’t mean to be overbearing in any way. There have been cases Ms. Pena has been concerned about, and we went through the legal system. No liquidations, because we would like these issues to be resolved. 

Commissioner Sosa. Ridiculous to go over the same issue over and over again. Let us remember those residents were allowed to be there by the county. To avoid the necessity to go over and over and over in front of this commission. At the same time, this govt cannot continue to be so inflexible. The bureaucracy sometimes needs to work together to respond together with those residents. 8.5 over and over again.

Commissioner Bell.  Here we are again. Sometimes I don’t know what to say. I have had a lot of conversations with Mr. Hefty and I think these issues are bigger than we even know. Task Force members asked to revisit Chapter 33, but attorney said you couldn’t. The scope of it right now is to review wetlands issue under Chapter 24. Attorney: an amendment could be done. Ms. Bell. Take a look at everything. We have to have a delicate balance between respecting and caring for environment and respecting and caring for people. We hear that there is still penalized, punitive against farming community yet we want to promote farming. Some of the best environmentalists I know are farmers. I want to be careful about protecting the environment, but we have to protect the environment. Can we make a motion that we look at Chapter 33 as well.  I didn’t even know this (Alice Pena) was happening to today. Task Force members feel frustrated.

Martinez. Needs to be subject to four day rule. Make a motion.

Barreiro. What I have heard of frustrations and incredible amount of regulation. What a great idea has morphed into a monster. Unfortunately we have added layers on top of that. I would rather get my permits from anywhere else but DERM. That is unfortunate. We don’t realize it is piling and piling and piling. I share the frustration with Alice and not only in farmland. Generally regulations have stopped job growth in this county. I wouldn’t even limit to Chapter 33. Any regulations that pertain to the environment that has some little area that might be important to look at. I’d leave it open to review anything.

 I started this four months ago. What we are doing is going through the county code and clear out all unnecessary and unneeded code. So we have a law school, FIU law students are going to go through all regulations under supervision of county attorney. Truly Burton was involved. There is a lot of unnecessary “pit stops” to getting a permit. Our bureaucracy has tried to screw up permitting. It is ridiculous. People justifying their jobs.

Mayor Gimenez. We need to review the code. When I got here I told DERM and deputy mayor that I wanted a review of our code. Eliminate things so we don’t have this kind of situation. We are working on a second meeting with mayors of South Dade, or, allow cities themselves to become “deputies” of DERM so they don’t have to come to the county. We agree with commission wanting to look how we are enforcing our laws, and we have to look at getting rid of laws that don’t make sense any more. We are hearing about heavy handed enforcement activites. A lot of these complaints come from some time back, and we are here to change our model. We are not here to take anyone’s property away, but we need to look. We have been working with South Floriida building community and we are working with them, to review things that give us a bad reputation with building community.

Heyman. I appreciate you (Pena) coming forward. Hard hand really needs a review. There must be a balance, common sense and what the legitimate use is. Sometimes it does require a revisit of the law. I appreciate. My concern was narrowing it so small; this is an open window. Also identify whose jurisdiction it is: some things are Florida statute. Use of farmlands should not negate the environment. Everybody who owns the land has great respect for it. I hope you will broaden it.

Barreiro. Staff and attitudes have changed, but I believe things were so, so bad but there is a lot longer to go. We need a matrix showing our regulations with state and feds up to what point do they want to regulate and where are we. (Martinez: that is part of what we are all doing. That is part of what they are reviewing: duplicity. (He actually used that word!)

Suarez. I basically agree what is stated. Many years ago I did represent folks in the 8.5 square mile. Mr. Chairman seems to know everything I did 20 years ago. We ought to protect lifestyle in 8.5 and we ought to do something about contradictory laws and enforcement. If we have to clarify anything so we can avoid difference.

Bell. Everyone is on the same page here and that is really good. Everyone wants to achieve balance of protecting the environment and the farmers. I move we look at all DERM rules and regulations, extend the task force, for one day less than a year, and work with Chairman Martinez’ already existing FIU law school students, then come back here with real fix-its. People are going to the state legislature to fix things.

Bovo. I would like to also include in this review, conduct of inspectors. We have instances in Hialeah where they have been paralyzed to do business and literally have to shut down everything they are doing. I’ve gotten back reports of investigators going beyond the role and responsibility and literally being the enforcer or judge at that moment. I’d like include that, too.

Bell. My motion is on the floor.

County Attorney. It was a “wetlands” advisory task force.

Pena. I want to refer back to 33B, legislative “intent”. I don’t think this is necessary. This document is used to describe our area as “sensitive’ which it is not. They are basing themselves on plans they have found in the area. All of these determinations of “wetlands” are inappropriate. This is being used to deprive people of properties.

Heyman. As much as we have grown in what we are looking at, we also include “submerged lands” and also where DERM is involved with sewer lines. If we are finally going to take a look at it. I hope it will not just be “wetlands”. Coast, lake, acquifer, Biscayne Landing, septic tanks for years. Sewer line hook-ups are cost prohibitive. Should not be limited to wetlands.

Martinez. Just include “everything”. On the next meeting I am planning to have the FIU people here.

Jordan. I don’t like shooting from the hip. We are now looking at everything? I fully support looking, but I really think if we are going to be adding everything, we need to wait for a meeting to discuss everything. I am hearing so much, and deviating from significantly to original item. Now we have moved from Florida to Maine in three seconds, so I am kind of concerned. I’d rather support the expansion of what was originally … or need to four day rule.

Martinez. Let’s just do 33 B.

Bell. It went “broad” on purpose. Let’s make a motion just to open up Chapter 33.

Pena. (Allows Pena to speak after motion passes without dissent.) Put a hold on all court cases and all fines.

Martinez. If anyone would like to make a motion. Some of them are very onerous. Is there anyway that can be done properly.

County attorney. You do not have a factual record of discriminatory behavior. You have a law in effect right now, you are proposing of carving out a section of the county to exclude from that law, unless you have a factual record to warrant a selection moratorium that you have a legal concern for selective enforcement.

Martinez. Can’t we take two weeks to put a moratorium on all wetlands enforcement?

County attorney. This board has the authority to have a moratorium.

Bell. Can we ask staff to provide hydrology study for Ms. Pena.

Pena. Final recommendations are coming in, giving DERM more authority. You can close down the county. Agriculture will be dead.

Martinez. Is there a reason she does not have the hydrology?

Lee Hefty. County is bound by state law to look at definition of jurisdictional wetland. That discussion has been throughout task force meetings. Regarding the fines, we are not in the business of collecting fines. What happens is when you have an enforcement case, we end up going through civil court system and penalties for wetlands fill violations a judge makes the decision.

Barreiro. Prepare report, matrix style between local and state and fed regulations to take a look at everything.

Part 1
Part 2