Florida State Amendment 4 (2010) I'm FOR It! By Geniusofdespair
Get ready because the Chamber of Commerce is gearing up to make Amendment 4 (Florida Hometown Democracy) ALL ABOUT JOBS. It is actually all about bad development and developers gone wild but hey, the public is stupid in the Chamber's eyes. They think that the citizens will buy this lame argument. Don't be duped John Q public! Here is a sample of what we can expect:
Talk about convoluted logic. We are in a recession thanks to the housing bubble and mortgage crisis. Both of those issues are directly connected to maintaining an economy based on residential development. If our local officials and the development industry and their powerful lobbyists can't see that you can't fix a problem by continuing along the path that lead to near ruin, it's time to try something else.
Just what we need now, to stimulate home building. There aren't enough homes? Development jobs are a big price to pay for people losing their homes because the State is over-built.
I loved my DBR this morning due to the irony of all the articles. The front page had Judge Bailey discussins 15,000 foreclosure cases with no service in Miami Dade, add to that the ones who have been served. Then on page nine the second part of the Hometown Democracy article headline was "critics promise efforts to derail amendment". In this (which is where I laughed so hard I cried) Jeffrey Bercow states "I think there will be initially so much litigation over this amendment and what it means that any out-of-state developer will flee from Florida......" And my response would be - what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!
Attorney's are paid to push their clients applications, but I truly don't believe anyone with an IQ over 80 can justify their backwards mentality. Homestead should be used as a prime example to promote Hometown Democracy.
These sound bites never give facts or data - and if they do, it's by their own sources and very scewed.
Jobs will be lost? Really? New home building will just cease? Really? What about the cost of urban sprawl to the people already living in the community? They don't or shouldn't count or have a say? Really?
How about some nice urban infill projects? For those out of State developers who don't know what to do with their money, I'll find plenty of areas which can use some improvements and they won't need a comp plan change to provide new housing.
Reading this blog is like watching a train wreck: there is the screeching alarmism and in the end the twisted wreckage of logic, but I can't look away. Has any Hometown Democracy supporter actually done a study of which developments they find so offensive and which required comp plan changes? I didn't think so. Has any Hometown Democracy supporter done a study showing that existing comp plans are the best of all possible worlds? So why would you want to be stuck with them? Hometown Democracy is just like Hold the Line: and easy answer that is not supported by data or reasoning. Screw developers, it's just bad planning policy. IJR
I think there are many of us who could point out land use changes in our communities which have not benefitted existing citizens or the commnity as a whole. Many of these changes were not made on sound planning principles or because there was a demonstrated need for additional housing units. These comprehensive plan changes were made because landowners requested them for the sole purpose of benefitting themselves. The result has been roads with failing levels of service, overcrowded schools and additional tax buden on existing residents for services and infrastructure and finally, a glut of unsold homes and declining property values. New Yorker Magazine ran an article in February titled "The Ponzi State," you should read it.
And how many "jobs" did the construction industry create in the past 3 years without Hometown Democracy? Looks to me like the industry/chambers are double talking.They presided over the biggest job loss in Florida in decades. Now they say FHD will cause job loss, I think not.
IJR you said: Has any Hometown Democracy supporter actually done a study of which developments they find so offensive and which required comp plan changes? I didn't think so. ----------------- What do you mean "I didn't think so?"
Yes I have. The Codina Beacon Lakes Development. The Brown Development near Kendall. The Shoppy Land Development, the Shoma Homes development that pulled out, the Latterner and Rosen Developments, The Atlantic Civil Development/Florida City Dri, The Parkland Development, Etc. Etc. I could go on...
A white paper was written on many of these developments (which is a study) and I read and supplied information for the White Paper that was submitted to the Watershed Study. And the watershed study addressed many of these issues which the county commission just put on a shelf because they didn't like the findings. That was a few million dollars study. And there is an AG study sitting next to it on the shelf. I went to these meetings. I know what is going on.
IJR I am sick of responding to you...because you don't do your homework.
I am just going to give you my stock:
"PUTZ" from now on -- or if you write anymore about Jewish people, delete you. I know how you like your Jewish Neighbors in Miami Beach.
So 6 projects in the entire county? (And BTW, that's not a "study.") What about the miles of sprawl in between each of the projects you mentioned that DIDN'T require comp plan changes? For the sake of a handfull of outlying developments, you would choose to hinder planning progress over the rest of the county? Remember, most existing comp plans are based on discredited ideas and need to be changed to promote mixed-use and coordination with transit policy, which most voters are not educated on. IJR
This is John Q. Public, and I'm not only voting for "4 for Florida," but I'm also cheerleading for it. All Floridians should support this grassroots movement to save what's left of our lovely and sensitive State from those endlessly roading bulldozers. We don't entrust our tax proposals to the pols, so why would we entrust something even more precious -- where we live -- to the developers. . . I mean, politicians. Just look at the backgrounds of our Tallahassee pols, for example, and you'll find moonlighting developers, or developers' shills, or developers' stooges. The fox is running the henhouse. I could go on. . . Just remember that FHD's Amendment 4 will restore democracy's long-forgotten 'public interest' to land-use decisions in Florida. Hurrah!
Well, IJR, following that reasoning, maybe the thing to do would be to place a moretorium on all land use decisions until better comprehensive plans can be drawn instead of just continuing to forge ahead willy nilly.
I hope the Hometown Democracy Amendment passes 75% to 25%. Residents and taxpayers need more control. It has been too easy for connected developers to get any vote they want from small minded elected officials. Now we are all stuck with too many homes, too many condos, too many offices...and too much traffic.
I hope the amendment passes. But watch how ugly the developers and the "chamber of commerce" types will make the campaign...
I agree with amendment 4 100% and will be voting for it. However, I do believe that in order for it to work there needs to be a new more efficient, less costly voting system set in place for voters to approve or disapprove projects. To hold an election every time a project comes around or hold projects until the next election is simply ridiculous. Some sort of secure online voting system should be implemented. I'm not saying this needs to be for all voting, just for the development decisions.
Why not? It seems as if we get new voting systems here every year or two for one reason or another. Wonder if the folks who peddle those are in any way related to developers...
Why don't you all move to Wyoming or Idaho, or the Dakotas (they were listed as some of the top places in the U.S. to live), or somewhere like that and leave us city folks alone.
It is time that the overbuilding mentality in Florida stopped. There are too many buildings. We need to use and fix what we have. That will make our existing properties appreciate. They will appreciate if people keep moving to Florida and if hurricanes keep demolishing a few buildings every few years. Letting developers control the state was a recipe for disaster.
Yvette, The middle would be that our elected officials would consider the consequenses of growth they approve and err on the side of quality of life for existing residents over increasing tax base, but they don't. The middle would be adopting comprehensive plans with long-term goals that make sense and sticking to them, they don't. Most people I know in favor of FHD are just as concerned about the lack of sustainable employment opportunities as they are preserving the character of their communities and the envirom=nment. No matter how you want to turn the worm, construction, expecially residential contruction, is not a sustainable job source, unless, once you get the state paved over in its entirety you turn around, rip it all up and start again. You can't base a whole state's economy on carpetbaggers.
Well, we would but our property values have fallen so much and there are so many existing homes on the market and spiffy foreclosure deals that we just can't afford to.
24 comments:
Talk about convoluted logic.
We are in a recession thanks to the housing bubble and mortgage crisis. Both of those issues are directly connected to maintaining an economy based on residential development.
If our local officials and the development industry and their powerful lobbyists can't see that you can't fix a problem by continuing along the path that lead to near ruin, it's time to try something else.
Just what we need now, to stimulate home building. There aren't enough homes? Development jobs are a big price to pay for people losing their homes because the State is over-built.
I loved my DBR this morning due to the irony of all the articles. The front page had Judge Bailey discussins 15,000 foreclosure cases with no service in Miami Dade, add to that the ones who have been served. Then on page nine the second part of the Hometown Democracy article headline was "critics promise efforts to derail amendment". In this (which is where I laughed so hard I cried) Jeffrey Bercow states "I think there will be initially so much litigation over this amendment and what it means that any out-of-state developer will flee from Florida......" And my response would be - what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!
Attorney's are paid to push their clients applications, but I truly don't believe anyone with an IQ over 80 can justify their backwards mentality. Homestead should be used as a prime example to promote Hometown Democracy.
These sound bites never give facts or data - and if they do, it's by their own sources and very scewed.
Jobs will be lost? Really? New home building will just cease? Really? What about the cost of urban sprawl to the people already living in the community? They don't or shouldn't count or have a say? Really?
How about some nice urban infill projects? For those out of State developers who don't know what to do with their money, I'll find plenty of areas which can use some improvements and they won't need a comp plan change to provide new housing.
Previous comment says it all. Very good anon
Reading this blog is like watching a train wreck: there is the screeching alarmism and in the end the twisted wreckage of logic, but I can't look away. Has any Hometown Democracy supporter actually done a study of which developments they find so offensive and which required comp plan changes? I didn't think so. Has any Hometown Democracy supporter done a study showing that existing comp plans are the best of all possible worlds? So why would you want to be stuck with them? Hometown Democracy is just like Hold the Line: and easy answer that is not supported by data or reasoning. Screw developers, it's just bad planning policy. IJR
I think there are many of us who could point out land use changes in our communities which have not benefitted existing citizens or the commnity as a whole. Many of these changes were not made on sound planning principles or because there was a demonstrated need for additional housing units.
These comprehensive plan changes were made because landowners requested them for the sole purpose of benefitting themselves.
The result has been roads with failing levels of service, overcrowded schools and additional tax buden on existing residents for services and infrastructure and finally, a glut of unsold homes and declining property values.
New Yorker Magazine ran an article in February titled "The Ponzi State," you should read it.
And how many "jobs" did the construction industry create in the past 3 years without Hometown Democracy? Looks to me like the industry/chambers are double talking.They presided over the biggest job loss in Florida in decades. Now they say FHD will cause job loss, I think not.
IJR you said: Has any Hometown Democracy supporter actually done a study of which developments they find so offensive and which required comp plan changes? I didn't think so.
-----------------
What do you mean "I didn't think so?"
Yes I have. The Codina Beacon Lakes Development. The Brown Development near Kendall. The Shoppy Land Development, the Shoma Homes development that pulled out, the Latterner and Rosen Developments, The Atlantic Civil Development/Florida City Dri, The Parkland Development, Etc. Etc. I could go on...
A white paper was written on many of these developments (which is a study) and I read and supplied information for the White Paper that was submitted to the Watershed Study. And the watershed study addressed many of these issues which the county commission just put on a shelf because they didn't like the findings. That was a few million dollars study. And there is an AG study sitting next to it on the shelf. I went to these meetings. I know what is going on.
IJR I am sick of responding to you...because you don't do your homework.
I am just going to give you my stock:
"PUTZ" from now on -- or if you write anymore about Jewish people, delete you. I know how you like your Jewish Neighbors in Miami Beach.
So 6 projects in the entire county? (And BTW, that's not a "study.") What about the miles of sprawl in between each of the projects you mentioned that DIDN'T require comp plan changes? For the sake of a handfull of outlying developments, you would choose to hinder planning progress over the rest of the county? Remember, most existing comp plans are based on discredited ideas and need to be changed to promote mixed-use and coordination with transit policy, which most voters are not educated on. IJR
This is John Q. Public, and I'm not only voting for "4 for Florida," but I'm also cheerleading for it. All Floridians should support this grassroots movement to save what's left of our lovely and sensitive State from those endlessly roading bulldozers. We don't entrust our tax proposals to the pols, so why would we entrust something even more precious -- where we live -- to the developers. . . I mean, politicians. Just look at the backgrounds of our Tallahassee pols, for example, and you'll find moonlighting developers, or developers' shills, or developers' stooges. The fox is running the henhouse. I could go on. . . Just remember that FHD's Amendment 4 will restore democracy's long-forgotten 'public interest' to land-use decisions in Florida. Hurrah!
Well, IJR, following that reasoning, maybe the thing to do would be to place a moretorium on all land use decisions until better comprehensive plans can be drawn instead of just continuing to forge ahead willy nilly.
I hope the Hometown Democracy Amendment passes 75% to 25%. Residents and taxpayers need more control. It has been too easy for connected developers to get any vote they want from small minded elected officials. Now we are all stuck with too many homes, too many condos, too many offices...and too much traffic.
I hope the amendment passes. But watch how ugly the developers and the "chamber of commerce" types will make the campaign...
I agree with amendment 4 100% and will be voting for it. However, I do believe that in order for it to work there needs to be a new more efficient, less costly voting system set in place for voters to approve or disapprove projects. To hold an election every time a project comes around or hold projects until the next election is simply ridiculous. Some sort of secure online voting system should be implemented. I'm not saying this needs to be for all voting, just for the development decisions.
Why not? It seems as if we get new voting systems here every year or two for one reason or another.
Wonder if the folks who peddle those are in any way related to developers...
I am an idiot. IJR
and you are a Putz.
I love the Nightlife - ILN
Why don't you drink the vodka on your site and mellow out?
Why don't you all move to Wyoming or Idaho, or the Dakotas (they were listed as some of the top places in the U.S. to live), or somewhere like that and leave us city folks alone.
It is time that the overbuilding mentality in Florida stopped. There are too many buildings. We need to use and fix what we have. That will make our existing properties appreciate. They will appreciate if people keep moving to Florida and if hurricanes keep demolishing a few buildings every few years. Letting developers control the state was a recipe for disaster.
As always the truth lies somewhere in the middle and the opposing camps are using extreme examples to validate their groups "good" approach.
Yvette,
The middle would be that our elected officials would consider the consequenses of growth they approve and err on the side of quality of life for existing residents over increasing tax base, but they don't. The middle would be adopting comprehensive plans with long-term goals that make sense and sticking to them, they don't.
Most people I know in favor of FHD are just as concerned about the lack of sustainable employment opportunities as they are preserving the character of their communities and the envirom=nment.
No matter how you want to turn the worm, construction, expecially residential contruction, is not a sustainable job source, unless, once you get the state paved over in its entirety you turn around, rip it all up and start again.
You can't base a whole state's economy on carpetbaggers.
Well, we would but our property values have fallen so much and there are so many existing homes on the market and spiffy foreclosure deals that we just can't afford to.
This came over the transom from Mike Thomas and the Orlando Sentinel.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-locorl-mike-thomas-hometown-dem062509jun25,0,5632777.column
Overdevelopment clearly did not work. A whole new batch of foreclosures is starting based on the resetting of adjustable rate mortgages.
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